I’m Sorry, But Your Religion is a Religion
April 4, 2008 by chillinatthecabstand
Dictionary.com defines religion as
“a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.”
It also defines a cult as
“an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers”
Now, apparently, this chick (maybe it’s a guy, I just read it I with a chick’s voice in mind) ) http://gracetapestries.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/christ-living-in-you/ thinks that Christianity isn’t a religion, but rather, as stuck-up Christians* love to say, “a relationship with Christ.”
Another circular argument. As she says…
“Christianity is not a religion. Well, if it’s not a religion then what is it? It is an Indwelling. It is the indwelling life of Jesus Christ, living out His life in every believer, on this day, April 3, 2008 and every day forward, from now and through all eternity. And that’s the Gospel truth!”
She then goes on to quote scripture, as if it has value beyond entertainment value (and the occasional clever line).
She then says Christians don’t follow a moral code, do rituals, etc., they just hear voices of 2,000 year old men inside their heads.
Well, naturally, I disagree with this, as Christianity not only matches the dictionary definition of “religion,” but also of “cult.” Let me show you why.
First, let’s see that definition of “religion” again.
“a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs”
Now let’s see if Christianity has all the necessary parts of a religion.
“A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe…” - Christians believe that God caused the universe, rules over it, and that the purpose of the universe is to worship God. So Christianity does have the first necessary component of a religion.
“Involving devotional and ritual observances” - Christians have many devotional and ritual observances, including the attendance of mass, praying, and fasting for Lent. So it has that part, too.
“Often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs” - I don’t know how the earlier linked lady thinks that Christianity doesn’t have a code of conduct. It has the ten commandments as well as the teachings of Jesus (or whoever wrote his story) that they (pretend to?) live by. Catholics additionally have things like “the social sins” (see my earlier post “The Pope’s Dumbass New Sins”).
So, Christianity has all the components of a religion.
What about a cult, though?
“Great veneration for an ideal, person, etc.” - Great veneration of Jesus as perfect and the son of God. Bada bing badda boom - cult. It isn’t classified as one, though, because cults are traditionally considered underground movements, not mainstream like Christianity.
On a parting note, is Christianity even a relationship? Again, Dictionary.com says a relationship is
“a connection, association, or involvement.”
Now, this is really a subjective thing - for someone like me, who doesn’t believe in God or think that Jesus ever even existed, it’s a hoax where people “cold read themselves.” Someone involved in this hoax, however, will believe they can feel a connection or whatever.
So, Christians can consider it a relationship, but normal people can’t, really.
Well, sorry Christians - turns out that your religion… is a religion. Tough.
…
*Not to say that all Christians are pissy and stuck-up, but only the pissy, stuck-up ones say things like “It’s not a religion, it’s a relationship!”
Is it just me, or does “indwelling” sound like a plot element from a bad science fiction novel? (or horror, I guess)
With due respect, “an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers” describes atheism quite well. Veneration of the unprovable notion that God in fact does not exist requires faith, and surely fits your definition to a T.
What’s with the tag spam? You haven’t even mentioned most of the words ( agnostic and agnosticism? ) you’ve added your post to. How does your post relate to many or most of the tags you’ve assigned it to, like
* Anton LaVey
* Baphomet
* Blog, Blogs, Blogz
* Camp (???)
* Celebrate and Celebration and Celebrations
* Child Rape
* Children
* Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, “new” atheism
* Egypt and Egyptians
* Father with several variations, parent with many more
* Pornography with several variations
* Rape again in several forms
* Satanism
* Sex four times not counting other closely related forms
* Slavery
You haven’t even alluded to most of these concepts in any way, shape, or form. But, when a person clicks through one of these tags from some distant corner of WordPress, you’ve “hijacked” the listing in a way to add your wholly unrelated blog pages. This is spam, by definition. Most blogs might list one or two tangenially related subjects that are discussed by a different name, however, you listed 88 tags and most of them aren’t at all related to your post.
Holy shit, man I didn’t realized I use 88.
Here’s how that came to be…
I realized that every new post I did I was using most of the same tags as the last, so eventually I just started copying and pasting the tags from my last post onto my new one to save myself some time.
I have written post about Anton Lavey, the Baphomet, camp (Jesus camp, actually), I don’t know where celebrate came from, I did posts on child rape and incest, I’ve done posts on Hitchens, Dawkins, and Harris, etc. etc.
It looks like they’ve just piled up.
Will:
lol yeah it does! Damn, what was that one movie where the alien lives in that guy’s stomach? That’s exactly what “indwelling” reminds me of…
Ha ha! Alexendar the Grate got you! Atiests believe in DNA because their’s no proof. And Athiesm is a religion ha ha but it’s a failed religion.
What you said just now, xtian, was so unbelievably, incomprehensibly stupid I think I’m just going to let it speak for itself.
As for his “atheism is a religion” thing, I plan on responding later tonight. I’m a little short for time right now as I have several offline things I am working on. It’s the same with Carey’s response to my “Jesus Proofs” post.
Alexander the Great said
“With due respect, “an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers” describes atheism quite well. Veneration of the unprovable notion that God in fact does not exist requires faith, and surely fits your definition to a T.”
>>No, it’s different from a cult because “veneration of a personal, ideal or thing” means something along the lines of worshipping planets, individuals (like in the People’s Temple), or certain bizarre beliefs, like the Scientologist belief that an alien overlord named Xenu bombed a bunch of aliens on earth and that’s why humans do bad things.
Atheism is just an umbrella term for anyone or any ideology which doesn’t believe in a theistic or deistic god, which doesn’t constitue a cult or religion, especially considering that each atheist is unique, some liberal, some conservative, some outspoken, some quiet, and all following varying moral codes.
Atheism, like I said, is just an umbrella term - it can include all kinds of ideologies and walks of life, including secularists, liberals, conservatives, LaVey Satanists, humanists, objectivists, etc.
There are so many different kinds of atheists that we can hardly be called a cult or religion - we also don’t have a universal code of conduct or set of beliefs or rituals, which set us apart from cults and religions.
We also don’t worship or venerate any certain being or ideal, we just don’t buy into the whole God thing, which is the default human position preceding indoctrination.
Calling atheism a cult or religion is like calling everyone who believes that grass is green a cult or religion (in fact, I did a post to this effect entitled “I Hereby Found the Church of the Green”). It’s just one common belief that is an umbrella for a truly diverse group of people.
A cult or religion would be unified, and although atheism does have a few organizations under its belt, there is no “Church of Atheism” like there is a “Church of Scientology.”
Being a Christian, I’ve always been a little bothered by the people that go with the whole Christianity isn’t a religion thing. Even James (the half brother of Jesus) gives a calls the Christian faith a religion. I’ve never considered religion a negative attribute or title and don’t mind bearing it.
angryxtian…what?
just stoppin’ by to say hey. interesting thoughts…..hmmmm
Just ignore angry, he’s got some sort of grudge against me.
I am also annoyed when people try to say that Christianity isn’t a religion, especially when they turn around and call atheism a religion lol
An “indwelling”… It’s a bit hard for me to come to terms with the fact that some people don’t think Christianity is a religion.
It definitely is and I’m totally ok with that. Glad even. Hope all is going well.
What have you been up to? You’re a pastor, right?
Not much, just work, school and music lately.
Yep, I’m a Student Pastor in North Georgia
Making music or listening?
What kind of stuff are you into?
Well, I think the reason a lot of Christians have started making a separation between ‘religion’ and Christianity is because you can have a ‘religion’ and not a relationship with God. Christianity is “SUPPOSED” to be about a relationship with the God, Yahweh.
HOWEVER, you do have Christians who have turned Christianity into a set of man-made precepts and laws.
Isaiah says it best:
Or for better readability we can use ‘The Message’ (not good for study, but good for readability)
And they say, “(F)Who sees us?” or “Who knows us?”
Oops…forgot to take off the cross references on that NASB citation…doh!
God Bless,
Chris
THANK YOU.
Thank you for not only explaining in plain and simple English how Christianity is not only a religion, but also slightly cult-ish, and also how Atheism is NOT a religion or cult.
Single common belief, people. NOT a system of beliefs, not even a structure of any kind… just one belief, and tonnes of mini-groupings who attach different implications to that belief.
I get people asking stupid questions all the time, along the lines of “So how did all the atheists get together and decide what to believe, if you don’t go to church?” (I swear, someone actually asked me that) or, my favourite, “If someone does something bad, do you just have to let him go? Because if you don’t believe in God, you must not believe in good and evil.” Nooooo, I’m pretty sure I can figure out good and bad on my own, thanks.
Anyway. This will help me suffer the comments of “stuck-up Christians” with a Mona Lisa smile. Thanks.
lol Of your list there, my favorite must be
“So how did all the atheists get together and decide what to believe, if you don’t go to church?”
Theists don’t seem to realize how unique each atheist is, and that we are all different. I’m sure there are atheists who don’t buy into evolution, for example.
Thanks for commenting, and the praise - I’m always glad to provide a smile.
let’s forward this to the Pope!
I’m sure the pope would love my blog.
He’d probably love it more if I supported Nazism, though. Ow! lol
I don’t have evidence for this…but I would be willing to bet that all religions build themselves up as not being a religion so much as a relationship with their god.
I don’t think all religions necessarily do, but I’d be willing to bet that a lot religious people do.
Wow there’s a lot of generalization going on in here.
It’s pretty impossible to talk about Christians without getting called out for generalizing because they can’t seem to agree on pretty much anything except Jesus.
lol That’s generalizing, too, isn’t it?
It’s ok. I expect you to generalize since pretty much all atheists generalize pretty much all the time. hehehe.
Oh, come on lol.
I try! It’s just difficult. “Well, Christians say that…”
“I don’t.”
It’s hard; Christians are very picky with their beliefs.
Ps I love that irony lol
Actually its sad, and Christians realize this most of all.
Take angry christians for example. That approach (to me) seems anti-scriptural and does more damage to the cause of Christ.
I stick by my belief that Christians do more damage to the cause of Christ than any non-Christian.
Personally, I don’t see Jesus getting ticked about people who do not believe in Him or the Father. I see Him getting angry about those that “profess” to know Him and lead others astray.
God Bless,
Chris
I wouldn’t say being an asshole is against scripture - I don’t know that and seriously doubt it - but it does hurt your cause.
As Gandhi said (I’m paraphrasing because I can’t remember the real quote) - “I like their Jesus, it is the Christians I do not like.”
Just realized you asked me a question about music earlier in the post. I make music and listen to it. I’m kind of a jack of all instruments master of none and I sing/write.
As far as listening, I’m really into more traditional music like folk and bluegrass and I really dig a lot of alt-country (Ryan Adams, Gillian Welch, Wilco, 16 Horsepower, etc). I’m also a sucker for funk.
I love the funk, but country makes me a bit naseous. lol
alt-country, not country. BIIIIIIG difference.
Really? What’s the difference?
Alt country keeps a lot of the traditional roots from back when country was good and lines that up with great lyrics and a different sort of edge. Check out Ryan Adams or 16 Horsepower, they cover most of the spectrum in this genre.