after someone made a comment about my being wrong about the exodus story being straight bullshit, i decided to elaborate on it here.
now, the (main) reason exodus is bullshit is that there is no historical proof (scientists and historians have gone looking) and no historical records except for the bible, which is no way a historical record.
egyptians didn’t record their losses (like the loss of all of their slaves), so there would be no egyptian record of exodus.
therefore, there are no historical records of the exodus story. some apologists have argued this point (that egyptians didn’t record their failures), saying that it proves that the biblical story is true. even if egyptians wouldn’t have recorded the exodus story, the fact remains that there are no records of this event. something isn’t true because of a LACK of evidence!
I have doubts of the historical accuracy of the Pentatuch because I was taught you need two primary sources to prove a secondary. The Bible as a secondary source needs to be ‘proved’ by outside sources, for which there seems to be very few. (also…Creationism?? Give me a break!!)
The story of Exodus is also questioned by Finklestein and Silberman in “Bible Unearthed.” Exodus is, however, central to the identity of the Jewish people regardless of its truthfulness.
The Bible is a good read if it is taken as a poetic version of history. I liked the sex parts in song of Solomon.
About Egypt: I thought the Egyptians kept better records so why is there nothing about ‘Pharoah’s army got drownded? or about the plagues?
The Egyptians were very good builders, so how in God’s name could they require the Jews to make bricks without straw? That would seem to be contrary to their usual attention to detail.
Recent finds show that the pyramids were built by the Egyptians as a WPA project, not by slaves. Wasnt that just a movie by Cecil B de Mille?
And, lastly, I think that the flood story has basis in fact in that recent discoveries in the Black Sea show a civilization drowned thousands of years BCE because the natural dam at the convergence of the Mediterranean and Black Sea broke open and put 200 feet of water in the basin in as little as a month.
How many other Bible stories came from much older societies and religions? There seems to be some universality to a few of them.
All excellent points I have read about from various sources but inexplicably left out here!
For further reading on the mythological nature of the bible, I highly recommend the book “101 Myths of the Bible: How Ancient Scribes Invented Biblical History”, which shows how 100 different bible stories/attributes of bible stories were plagarised from older, pagan religions.
I live way out in the woods. The cost of fuel keeps me from gettin to town much.
Do you have a html I can get to that would have more information on the ‘101 Myths of the Bible.’
It sounds like just what I am looking for.
I am fascinated by homogenization if fact and myth in literature and history.
Thanks
http://www.amazon.com/101-Myths-Bible-Gary-Greenberg/dp/1570718423/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207242566&sr=8-1
Is that what you meant by html? Like where to buy it? Or more information on it?
Actually, I looked at it again and it kind of looks like some apologists thing… idk There is also the Jesus Mysteries, which I am intending to pick up this week.
have a good time in hell
Thanks!
Many people that try to prove the Bible is wrong use science. Any real scientist that attempts to prove a theory uses the Scientific method. Using the scientific method you can not prove a negative i.e. “The Exodus is bullshit and did not happen;” nor does the absence of proof prove a negative. The same way one must prove it did happen, one must also give conclusive proof it did not happen.
Wrong…I can just disbelieve all I want. If you want me to believe in your god..prove to me he exists.
I can also tell you that Moses did not write all the Pentateuch, Tower of Babel never happened, Noah’s flood never happened. I have proofs for this position. You can listen or not…don’t mean a hill of beans to me.
Iain:
Sooo, you’re saying that you creationists cannot prove that “evolution is bullshit and did not happen”?
Evidence for the exodus
Many people do not believe the Exodus took place. They often claim that there is no historical evidence, other than that found in the Bible. But there is evidence of the Exodus as stated by Grant Jeffrey in his book “Unveiling Mysteries of the Bible”. An important Egyptian historical manuscript was discovered in Egypt more than a century ago.
Remarkably, this ancient papyrus parallels the history of the Exodus account as found in the Scriptures. This manuscript recorded the writings of an ancient Egyptian named Ipuwer. The papyrus manuscript, now called the Ipuwer Papyrus, was discovered by someone named Anastasi in the area of Memphis, near the pyramids of Saqqara in Egypt.
The museum of Leiden in the Netherlands acquired the papyrus in 1828. It was translated and published in English for the first time in 1909 by Professor Alan H. Gardiner. Gardiner wrote that the manuscript was one that recorded a genuine historical catastrophe when the whole country of Egypt was in distress and violence. “It is no merely local disturbance that is here described, but a great and overwhelming national disaster.”
Gardiner suggests that Ipuwer was an Egyptian sage who directed his writing to the king as a complaint that the national catastrophe was in part caused by the king’s failure to act and deal with the crisis.
A comparison of several key passages from the Biblical Book of Exodus with the ancient Egyptian papyrus reveals remarkable correspondences and parallels that point to a real historical catastrophe.
1. The Plague of Blood
In Ipuwer Papyrus 2:5-6, it says: Plague is throughout the land. Blood is everywhere. Compare this with the Book of Exodus 7:21: There was blood throughout all the land of Egypt.
In Ipuwer Papyrus 2:10, it says: The River is Blood. Compare with Exodus 7:20: All the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.
In Ipuwer Papyrus 2:10, it says: Men shrank from tasting…and thirst for water. Compare with Exodus 7:24: And all the Egyptians digged round about the river for water to drink; for they could not drink of the water of the river.
2. The Plague of Hail
Ipuwer papyrus 9:23: The fire ran along the ground. There was hail, and fire mingled with the hail. Exodus 9:25: And the hail smote every herb on the field, and brake every tree in the field.
3. The Plague of Darkness
Ipuwer Papyrus 9:11: The land is not light. Exodus 10:22: And there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt.
4. The Plague of Egyptian Cattle
Ipuwer papyrus 5:5: All animals, their hearts weep. Cattle moan. Exodus 9:3: Behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thy cattle which is in the field, upon the horses, upon the asses, upon the camels, upon the oxen, and upon the sheep: there shall be grievous murrain (disease).
5. The Plague of the Firstborn of Egypt
Ipuwer Papyrus 2:13: He who places his brother in the ground is everywhere. Exodus 12:27: He (the angel of the Lord) smote the Egyptians. Ipuwer Papyrus 4:3: Forsooth, the children of princes are dashed against the walls. Exodus 12:29: At midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt. Ipuwer Papyrus 6:12: Forsooth, the children of the princes are cast out in the streets, Exodus 12:30: There was not a house where there was not one dead.
6. Response of the Egyptians to the Loss of their First born
Ipuwer Papyrus 3:14: It is groaning that is throughout the land, mingled with lamentations. Exodus 12:30: There was a great cry in Egypt.
In light of the ample evidence accumulated from ancient Jewish and Greek historians, together with the Ipuwer Papyrus that parallels several of the 10 Biblical plagues, it is clear that there is compelling non-Biblical evidence to confirm the scriptural account about the Exodus of the Jews from Egypt. Further proof of the Exodus is the fact; the Jews have annually celebrated three great festivals in commemoration of their Exodus (Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles) for 3500 years. Therefore, logically, the public observance of the Exodus Passover festival can only be explained if the Jewish people actually participated in these historical events as recorded in the Torah, the first five books of the Bible.
By George Konig
March 14, 2004
http://www.konig.org
hey evry one lol u really believe this bull shit even thoe i dnt no what u tlkin bout but hey hahahaha funny shit once u read it lol
nothing else coming from me and < \\//\\
haha fish and chips lol see how many peaps can do emotes wit ur key board like my fish < <*?)\
PEACE OUT SEZ!! xxx
hello again,
[plos. go to our website]
In reply to the cut/paste article by Sol, this does not stand up to scrutiny. This entire argument is based on the similarities of a single papyri to another text composed centuries later.
The Admonitions of Ipuwer (for which a correct citation would be appreciated greatly) is in fact one of a whole number of the “Pessimistic” literary genre of the Middle Kingdom era. These texts are not based upon Biblical plagues from the sky but are a dramatised account of the First Intermediate Period circa 2150 – 2055 BCE.
Similar texts at the time were written concerning “prophecies” of a saviour ruler, Ameney, who would rescue Egypt from such disaster, and were created to legitimise the rise of the 12th Dynasty under Amenemhat.
Both texts served to exaggerate the chaos of the previous era that would now be put in order by the new Pharaoh, defeating chaos and ensuring order, which was the ideological heart of Pharaonic Egypt.
One does not look to miracles and the Old Testament to explain this. It is reinforcing standard Egyptian ideology at a time when new dynasties were coming to fore, and needed to reinforce their legitimacy.
Note: The Papyri referred to here is the “Admonitions of Ipuwer” preserved on P. Lleiden 344, translations of which can be found in both the texts below.
Refs:
Lichtheim, M, 1973, Ancient Egyptian Literature Vol. I, University of California Press.
Simpson, W K (ed), 2003, Ancient Egyptian Literature, Yale University Press. (3rd Ed)
Still a problem, when was it written, has it been carbon dated. Also it the Jews were slaves there would have been birth, death, sales and buying of slaves in the egyptian records. Records of food and clothing spent on slaves, things of that nature.
To Shasiti – Carbon dating an individual papyrus is not particularly useful, as the surviving papyrus is a much later scribes copy from the 19th Dynasty. It is the style of writing and language, as well as subject and style, that allow us to determine the original age of the original text.
Dear Sir
On the Ipuwer papyrus, We are told that even though it was from the 1300 BC it was believed to be a copy form the 1600 BC or before this. So what do they base this on???
Thank You!
G M Matheny
Pharaoh hardened his heart against God just as people harden their hearts now. No amount of evidence is good enough for those determined to live in rebellion to the creator.
God provided for eternity through His Son (another historical character with Biblical and extra-biblical mention). He simply asks you to come to Him and believe.
If you choose to throw away eternity for a few years here, it’s your choice, but it is unnecessary to suffer forever.
One must ask, “what’s bugging you more? The peace or the good will to men.” dogma?